Owen Benjamin Vs Jimbob

A debate analysis and some thoughts.

I really like Owens demeanor and questions I think they were really good and I think Jim Bob fielded them mostly though I think he got a little too caught up in trying to call out logical fallacies but that's a small critique.

Owens biggest problem is he is coming from a western framework in which to approach the Trinity. Therefore thinks all trinitarian theology is the same. From an orthodox perspective the Trinity is necessary because it allows us to make sense of reality and make the universe coherent. The church fathers talk in depth about the necessity of Christ the second person incarnating into the physical universe and the reason he is “praying to himself” in the garden is to signify that he is coming to fulfil those prayers to fulfill the role of the high priest and be a sacrifice.

So if Owen does read this comment I would say this read ‘On the Incarnation’ by Saint Athanasius it's a great start as to why it's necessary for Christ to Incarnate. By taking on human nature he bridges the divine and humanity allowing us to partake in God the father’s divinity through the second person.

Jimbob did an excellent job breaking down the necessity of the one and the many. And I think Owen admitted that that was actually a good argument.

If Owen would be so kind as to consider this. Orthodox do not claim to know who is saved and who is not we do claim truth and that the fullness of truth to be found in the Orthodox Church. That the path or the way is the most coherent way to approach this I break this down in my substack titled Considering Orthodoxy/Christianity as "The Way" this is how I have made sense of it with the help of my Bishop.

Furthermore we hold essence/energy distinction of God is like a fire. The Essence of fire radiates heat and light. In a similar way God radiates truth he radiates love he radiates Grace.

To push back a little bit on Owen comment about hate comes from God. God does not radiate hate he does not create evil. He does not create sin he does not create any of these things these are simple privations. When there is no love what is left is hate, when there is no truth what is left is falsehood, when there is no goodness what is left is evil.

From this we can determine that evil is a privation it cannot sustain itself nor create of itself. It is a lack of goodness not something of its own accord.

I think Owen can get there if we realizes not all Christians are Western in Orientation. Orthodoxy can make a coherent argument as to why their is a need for the trinity, but why their is a need for all the doctrines we hold to.

I would encourage Owen to attend a divine liturgy and just observe. Talk to Orthodox clergy. Lastly Owen with love in Christ I hope you understand while we won’t proclaim whom God has mercy on and whom he won’t it is important to note that God judges us based on the knowledge we have.

Orthodoxy allows us to grow by partaking in God’s divine energies through theosis.

Through this process we become more and more like God. This is how the Saint’s can hear our prayers and do things that what one would think only God can.

God Bless Jimbob and God Bless Owen.